Tuesday, April 7, 2009

What Would George Bush Have Said?

President Obama's approach to foreign affairs has given the Ivory Tower Pundit much to think about over the past week.

Perhaps I will start off with the following question: What would George Bush have said about the proposed law in Afghanistan which would have required women to submit to having sex with their husbands on their demand, or to require their husbands' permission to leave the house?

Normally one government will refrain from interfering in the internal domestic affairs of another country. This is generally a legitimate approach. It is not up to people who live in one country to preach or lecture to the people of another country. Conventions, cultures and values differ from country to country and democratically elected governments are ordinarily answerable only to those persons who put them into office.

When internal domestic matters, however, give rise to breaches of international law, or raise human rights concerns, other countries do not have to remain indifferent or silent. This is particularly so when the country that is abusing the human rights of its citizens, or is flouting international law, is being supported, either financially or militarily, by other countries.

Kudos therefore to the Stephen Harper government for its firm and uncompromising stand on the proposed Afghanistan law referred to above. Canadians are fighting and dying in Afghanistan in order to defeat the Taliban and to improve the condition of Afghanis. It was therefore entirely appropriate and laudable for Prime Minister Harper, and other Canadian parliamentarians, to publicly condemn the proposed law. The Prime Minister made it clear that "making progress on human rights for women is a significant component of the international engagement in Afghanistan." Canadians from both sides of the political spectrum called on President Karzai "to make sure Afghanistan lives up to its international treaty obligations for human rights, especially human rights for women." Prime Minister Harper showed yet again that when it comes to foreign affairs, he is prepared to stand up for what the Canadian government believes in, even if sometimes Canada has to stand alone.

Now let me turn to the public position of the American government on this issue. As far as I can tell, President Obama's limited position was that although the law was "abhorrent", American troops were in Afghanistan to protect Americans from the terrorists who seek to destroy it. Although improving conditions in Afghanistan might be a "commendable goal", that is not the mission. There was no outrage here.

I cannot help but wonder - what would George Bush have said about the proposed law? Would he also have taken the position that bringing freedom and dignity to all Afghanis was not America's mission, or would he have sounded more like Stephen Harper?

And what about the public flogging of a 17 year old screaming girl in Pakistan? Is this also none of America's business? I may be wrong but I have not heard any outrage expressed over this by President Obama in his recent world tour. He certainly had ample opportunity during his many press conferences and speeches to say something about this. As far as I can determine, the US government did not wish to comment on this horrific incident from an ally country despite requests from the media. The most they could finally muster up was a statement by UN Ambassador Susan Rice that this would "appear" to be an abuse of human rights which the US "would be" very concerned about. I am not sure whether the President said anything about it himself. And what about Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who ran against Obama as a champion of the rights of women, and in particular the right of a woman, i.e. her, to become President?

I would love to see some of their AIG bonus rage from the U.S. Administration on these issues. And I am sure we would have seen it from George Bush.

29 comments:

  1. Prof Klar,
    You pose the question "what would George Bush have said about the proposed law?" Then you critique Obama, which is fair enough. Then you say that you are "sure" you would have seen "rage" from George Bush.

    That is a strong claim. I am wondering what in George Bush's history leads you to that conclusion. I'm not disputing it, I just don't know, and I'm interested in knowing what insights lead you to this bold conclusion.

    Regards,
    Milf

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  2. George Bush would have paid lip service to the brutality and continued being above the law in secret and continue his policies on torture, that is the duplicity of George Bush, you really needn't spend so much time wondering about he would have done. his public outcry is much different from the reality. Obama is more cautious in his approach, less a shoot em up cowboy, he takes time to regard the bigger picture. You can't have it both ways, police everyone or mind our own business, you really need to pick the biggest battles first and perhaps by reaching out slowly minds will change in a culture that is so different from ours, a friend

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  3. Our "strong and principled stand" is going to get our oil fields hit by al Qaeda supporters - because we are doing exactly what they accuse us of doing - trying to foist our values on a culture that doesn't want them. I think it's a real mistake to assume that the Afghani women are all unwilling victims in that legislation. The reality is that the Taliban is stronger than ever - and it's set to defeat U.S. puppet Karzai in the first chance at democracy it gets - if it gets it. They didn't get that way without some support from their women (hence the old saying, 'an army travels on its stomach.')

    If the women are all dead set against the legislation - where's the proof of that? We had the same law in Canada until a few decades ago - and few people questioned it.

    If we really want security, then we should start by getting the hell out of a country whose citizens are using deadly force to drive home the point that we've already over-stayed our welcome.

    Let them see for themselves how far they get under the re-rule of the Muslims from hell. They seem to have very short memories...

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  4. It would seem to me that you would prefer a President who expresses strong emotions as opposed to one that is more measured. Fine.

    But the question that it might be useful to consider is this: Is it better to have a President who expresses strong emotions at injustices in the world? Is it in America's national interest to have a President who readily expresses outrage and anger? As repugnant as the legislation is to your and my sensibilities, I'm certain you would agree that there are many situations in the world (Sri Lanka, Darfur, Lebanon etc.) that are at least the equal in terms of human misery. It's quite possible that if a President showed outrage at all of the world's major injustices, he might appear to have a mood disorder.

    I think the real distinction lies between your preference for an America that will fight any battle, right any wrong and save any life regardless of the cost to the national interest. This is referred to as "idealism" and is identified with Kennedy, Reagan and GW Bush. I sit with the mainstream post WW II American foreign policy establishment here, as a "realist". Realists seek to behave ethically but the primary concern is the national interest. Nixon, Eisenhower, George Bush Sr. and FDR were all realists. Henry Kissinger is the most prominent practitioner/intellectual of the movement post WW II. It appears Obama is a realist, judging by his measured responses and his assertion that the primary reason US troops are in Afghanistan is national security.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceP3VAgR4qo

    Geoffrey Daniels

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  5. I didn't know that George W. Bush was dead and could no longer speak.

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  6. I'm a 25 yr old female and when I saw the video of the public beating of the 17 yr old girl in Pakistan, it made me physically sick. I cannot imagine that, had an African American been beaten by an angry mob or had a Jewish person been publicly flogged, Obama would have remained silent.

    His refusal to condemn what happened to this 17 year old girl who was "guilty" of being alone with a man is simultaneously hurtful to women, to human rights activists, and to the country of Pakistan which deserves higher expectations from the American President than what Obama has shown.

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  7. I commend the following piece.

    At some point, the Obama apologists are going to have to stop making excuses and hold the President to the same standards they demanded of the previous US administration.

    Read: http://www.truthout.org/040909K

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  8. Lewis,
    Barack Obama's failure to clearly denounce misogynist practices certainly deserves criticism. But shouldn't you place this in a broader commentary on his military and diplomatic strategies vis-a-vis the Middle East and Muslim nations?Rather, you now raise every conceivable objection to Obama -- his first-name familiarity, his shirtsleeves style, his gift preferences. So your blog is becoming a mere inventory of his negatives with no sense of proportion or balance.
    And if you choose to applaud Stephen Harper, deservedly, on one human rights issue, couldn't you also consider his government's inexplicable refusal to issue a passport to Abousfian Abdelrazik?
    A blog on 'everything I hate about Obama and love about Harper' may be entertaining -- but predictable.
    And who are these "Obama apologists" to whom you vaguely refer?
    Ron C

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  9. Fair comment, Ron.

    But what are the "positives" I should be putting into the balance?

    I think his economic policies - eg bailouts, huge deficits, refusal to veto ear marks, excessive non stimulatives in a supposed stimulus package - are negatives.

    I do not know what his Middle East military or diplomatic strategies are. I know he is bombing Pakistanis, doubling the prison in Afghanistan, refusing to extend any legal protections to the prisoners kept there, sending more troops to Afghanistan. Are these the policies I should be putting into perspective?

    I do not think he has performed well. If you have positives, I invite you to point them out.

    As for the "apologists", these are the people who meet every criticism one raises with the following predictable excuses -

    He inherited the problems;
    He is better than Bush;
    What would McCain have done?
    He has only just started his Presidency.

    Sooner or later these excuses are going to be tiresome.

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  10. Prof. Klar,

    You're right: "sooner or later these excuses are going to be tiresome." But maybe ten weeks into the Presidency is too soon to mark it DOA?

    After all, his Middle East policies are no more or less than his campaign promises. You get what you voted for. Greater engagement with isolated regimes; an attempt to halt the Other-ing of the Muslim world, even if the measures are, of necessity, mainly optics; an empowered diplomacy (powerful roles for Sec. of State & George Mitchell); new commitment to Afghanistan. His lack of balls in the area of human rights is pretty much par for the course for foreign policy realists.

    You say that "he inherited the problems" is a weak excuse. True, there are some areas in which a simple directive from the President could change a lot. In these areas, like state secrets, surveillance, and detainees, it is hollow excuse to say he inherited the problems. But it is the only rational view for the economic turmoil. He didn't cause it-- his opponents did-- and he can't fix it by fiat.

    You mention four 'negative' economic policies: bailouts, deficits, ear marks, non-stimulus spending in the package. 1) This is a good point. The bailout money has been horribly managed and sent to undeserving companies, or offshore, when many firms should have gone into reorganization. 2) There is overwhelming agreement among economists that government deficit spending is necessary to make up for lack of consumer spending. As for the federal deficit, the GOP was not too worried about it when Bush ran up a 2.5 trillion dollar imbalance. Nonetheless, the CBO, Orszag, and the President should be more frank: when the economy improves, they will have to create a new highest tax bracket (the current system is not very progressive, making no rate distinction between $250 000 a year and $250 000 000), or raise the top rate closer to where it was for most of the last century. 3) Earmarks were a trivial percentage of the omnibus bill (<2%). 4) "Non stimulative" spending was also a small fraction of the bill, though I am not sure where you draw the line between stimulative and non-stimulative dollars. These last two concerns, like the AIG bonuses, were made mountains from molehills by the GOP because they're easy to attack.

    Re: the Afghan laws. Pretty sad that the only U.S. administration in recent memory to take Middle East human rights seriously was that of the West Wing. To quote the show on Saudi Arabia:

    This is a country where women aren't allowed to drive a car. They're not allowed to be in the company of any man other than a close relative. They're required to adhere to a dress code that would make a Maryknoll nun look like Malibu Barbie. They beheaded 121 people last year for robbery, rape, and drug trafficking. They have no free press, no elected government, no political parties. And the Royal Family allows the Religious Police to travel in groups of six carrying nightsticks and they freely and publicly beat women. But 'Brutus is an honorable man.' 17 schoolgirls were forced to burn alive because they weren't wearing the proper clothing. Am I outraged? No. . . . That is Saudi Arabia, our partners in peace."

    On Monday, Mark Danner leaked the full, secret Red Cross report on CIA detention. It would make any American ashamed of himself. But I haven't heard a single word about it from anybody. Not from the supposed anti-torture Republicans (Graham, McCain, Spector) or from the President. Nobody. Why do you think there's such a silence? It scares me that no one seems to care.

    See you Tuesday,

    Scott

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  11. A follow up Ron.

    It's not as if my dislike of Obama's policies is unique. As far as the polls go, the majority of Americans while they "approve" of Obama do not like his policies. This I frankly find bizarre. I would have thought that a sensible person would judge a President on policies and performance, not on personality. How one can approve of a President's performance but not like what he actually does as President is beyond my comprehension.

    I do not dislike Obama as a personality; I have made that point several times.

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  12. Great comment Scott.

    I appreciate your analysis of the issues. I would have a few quibbles. Obama promised "change". Thus to concede that on some key issues, like human rights, its just more of the same, is a major criticism and the source of much of my cynicism. Also to trivialize billions of dollars in pork because it's only a fraction of the entire package is unconvincing. Remember he campaigned on cutting out wasteful spending. In terms of his Middle East approaches again we see smoke and mirrors. One day he is sounding like George Bush talking about our enemies who are out to kill us and who we must kill first, and then the next day he is sending out video messages with love and peace. As far as Iran is concerned, if you were an Israeli and had to listen to the vile hatred coming out of Iran and its promise to destroy you, the idea of seating down with them to talk turkey would be a repulsive thought.

    But to repeat - I really appreciate it that someone who seems to support Obama in general terms, is prepared to call him out on key issues.

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  13. Lewis,
    If you don't know what Obama's Middle East diplomatic and military stategies are, you might draw some inferences from his speeches in the last couple of days -- which I liked.
    I believe he is trying to distinguish between terrorists and nations, which GWB infamously failed to do.
    Admittedly, the line can be blurred but the "If I were an Israeli" argument is not necessarily a sound foundation for U. S. foreign policy.
    Here's what what Patrick Martin wrote yesterday in The Globe: JERUSALEM -- In the space of little more than 24 hours in Turkey and Iraq this week, U.S. President Barack Obama made enormous strides in doing away with 7½ years of America's perceived Islamophobia.
    Ron C

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  14. Ron:

    Again, and with respect, I think you confuse Obama's "speeches" with his actions. There is no doubt that he is a master with words; a gifted salesman. He is trying to do away with 7 years of "perceived" Islamophobia. How? By sending in more troops to Afghanistan? By sending drones to bomb Paskistan? By doubling the size of the prison in Afghanistan? By refusing to extend due process to the prisoners held there. He flies into Iraq for 5 hours to tell American troops what a wonderful job they did, after he condemned it as the "wrong war" and voted against the surge which allowed the US to pull its troops out?

    In terms of US foreign policy re Israel, Obama has not wavered one centimeter from the Bush foreign policy and his Secretary of State Clinton was the most pro Israeli candidate of them all. This of course pleases me; but I doubt it will please all of those who somehow think Obama will moderate its pro Israeli policy.

    Judge him by what he does and not by what he says.

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  15. Prof Klar,

    This post was (going by the title) not about what Obama is doing, but about what George Bush would have done. You conclude, quite peremptorily, that we would have seen "rage" from President Bush.

    Again I ask: upon what do you base that conclusion?

    Surely you see the need to offer up something to defend this. Otherwise, you are committing the same sin as you ascribe to the Obama "apologists", whoever they are. All you are saying is that "Bush is better than Obama".

    Regards,
    Milf

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  16. "What would George Bush have said?" - LK.
    "Judge him (Obama) by what he does and not what he says" - LK.
    Double standard?

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  17. Sir,

    Long time reader of your blog. I enjoy your witty commentary on politics, and find your verve and style a refreshing change from fusty blowhards such as George Will or Sean Hannity.

    However, a comment you made above really made me think. You make the following claim:


    " As far as the polls go, the majority of Americans while they "approve" of Obama do not like his policies"


    So I thought: where did he get that from? You do not cite any evidence. In law, aren't you supposed to build a case on evidence?

    However, 2 recent articles show high approval ratings and strong support for Obama's economic policies.

    http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2009/03/31/8954846-cp.html

    http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-03-31-voa9.cfm

    It seems you are factually incorrect.

    Sincerely,

    Alfred Williams

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  18. Thank you Alfred for your comment.

    I have seen several polls which indicate significant disapproval of Obama's policies as compared with approval of Obama.

    For example, see http://www.gallup.com/poll/106114/Six-Oppose-Wall-Street-Bailouts.aspx

    This Gallup poll published on April 3, 2008 indicates that 6 in 10 Americans oppose the Federal bailouts of Wall Street firms.

    Another story indicates that 79% of Americans do not support auto bailouts:

    see http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bailout-watch-491-76-of-american-say-no-to-more-motown-bailouts/

    The common wisdom is that Obama's personal approval ratings are much higher than approval for his policies. If you google this issue, you will see widespread discontent.

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  19. As to Ron's argument that there is a difference between Bush and Obama regarding the Islamic world and their foreign policies, I recommend the following article from The Australian:

    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,25317437-7583,00.html

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  20. Sir,

    The polls you cited prove you wrong. The first poll is over a year old and not directly relevant to Obama's policies. The second actually shows Obama's auto policy supported by 76% of the country.

    Your poll concerning wall st. bailouts is a little over a year old. Bear Stearns was the topic of discussion then. Even if we assume voter attitudes haven't changed (and again, we really shouldn't make assumptions), TARP was signed by Bush, created by two Bush appointees (Bernanke and Paulson) and supported by McCain and Obama. While the Obama Administration is executing that policy now, it is certainly not his policy alone, and it's more honest to say that although Obama supported it, TARP isn't his policy at all.

    As to the auto bailout poll, it merely demonstrates that the Obama Administration is in synch with the populace. Obama opposes more bailouts.

    http://www.thestarphoenix.com/Cars/Obama+rejects+auto+bailout/1447081/story.html

    So in sum, you cite a year-old poll which largely refers to a Bush policy, and a more recent poll showing the Obama Administration in line with public opinion.

    I think your thesis, weakened by your own evidence, remain unproven. The alternate thesis, that Obama's policies are well-regarded, gains support from your auto bailout argument.

    If I am in error, please let me know.

    Sincerely,

    Alfred Williams

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  21. Yes, you are in error.

    The majority of Americans oppose auto bailouts. I think we are both in agreement on that. Right?Despite what Obama might say, what does he do? He continues to provide auto bailouts. He gives them one last chance, and then one last chance, all the while pouring billions more money into the industry. Is this "opposing" bailouts? Again look at what he does; not what he says. Lets see what he does when they come calling again. Will he oppose the bailout or dole out more cash? Why don't we talk again then? Will he pull the plug?

    Obama supported every bailout, both before and after his election. Deeds.. not words.

    That Obama is more popular than his policies is clear. See for example: http://news.webindia123.com/news/articles/Business/20090401/1213941.html

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  22. Sir,

    Yes, most Americans do not support auto bailouts. On that we are certainly in agreement.

    As to what the Obama Administration is doing (as opposed to "saying") is creditor restructuring, a last ditch effort to stave off bankruptcy. Having worked through several restructurings and been present through both Chapter 11 and CCAA proceedings, I can tell you this is standard procedure. Of course, when it's companies as large as GM and Chrysler, nothing is ever completely standard, but it is textbook creditor restructuring. And again, that is what they are doing, not just saying.

    The link you gave is most illuminating. I see the quote that probably caught your eye:

    "The survey also suggests that President Obama is more popular than his policies on the economy. While his overall approval rating stands at 66 percent, 60 percent favor the way he's handling the economy."

    Pretty close, but even more telling is the following:

    "The ABC/Washington Post poll was conducted March 26-29, with 1,000 adults questioned by telephone. The survey's sampling error is plus or minus 3 percentage points."

    So very close to what the pollsters call the margin of error. In simpler terms, too close to call a meaningful difference.

    Journalists are not hired for their skills in statistical analysis and often have no training or aptitude in this area, and consequently make erroneously strong statements from inconclusive data. That goes for their copy editors as well, who let these nonsensical statements pass. People who use statistics for a living (such as I) pick up on errors in thinking like this the way skillful pundits such as yourself or Mr. Charles Krauthammer pick apart the policy inconsistencies of the Obama Administration.

    Again, if you have further reason to believe I'm wrong, please let me know!

    Sincerely,

    Alfred Williams

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  23. Lewis,

    Although you wrote your article as another episode in the Obama vs. Bush, democrat vs. republican saga, the real problem is the attitude of politicians and public officials, liberal and conservative, who, out of diplomatic concerns, regularly ignore the violence and mistreatment of women the world over.

    A lot of people commented on your blog, but rarely did the subject of their comment touch on the crime committed in Pakistan. In fact, by the end of the thread the subject had shifted from violence against women to Obama's policy on corporate bailouts. I'm glad people are pointing out inaccuracies about whether you correctly site the latest polls. However, that is a non-issue in terms of what your piece should really be about: the condemnation of the mistreatment of women and the failure of of the President of the United States to do so.

    I agree with you. Obama should have condemned the brutal torture of a 17 year old girl in Pakistan, however your article seemed more about your continued dislike for Obama and only coincidentally about the injustice suffered by the woman in Pakistan. I agree with Sam, who wrote about her revulsion not from the standpoint of a democrat or a republican, but from the standpoint of a woman and a human rights activist who recognized the gravity of the injustice, and the all too familiar story of politicians who miss important opportunities to uphold and defend universal human rights.

    To make petty comparisons between Obama and Bush is, I think, besides the point.

    Best and Happy Holidays,

    Jessica Abells

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  24. Thanks Jessica.

    I totally agree with the essence of your comment.The story should have primarily been about the rights of women.

    But unless we continue to demand that Obama lives up to his promises of change, nothing will change. Perhaps I go on about him too much. Others have made the same point. But when someone stands on a platform of moral and intellectual superiority, as Obama does, he and those who support him have to expect to be challenged on those claims.

    I am pleased that you and a few other commentators have acknowledged that Obama failed to live up to his promises in this instance at least. And if it had not been brought up here in this blog, would anyone have noticed?

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  25. What could Canada or America do to help women in Afghanistan or Pakistan?
    rc

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  26. For RC and others looking for ways to help Afghani women, here are some good links:

    http://www.w4wafghan.ca/w4w_html/aboutus.html

    http://www.rabble.ca/news/canada-should-change-its-policy-afghanistan


    http://auto_sol.tao.ca/node/2980

    Best,

    Sheila Felcher

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  27. Prof Klar,

    You say: "if you were an Israeli and had to listen to the vile hatred coming out of Iran and its promise to destroy you, the idea of seating down with them to talk turkey would be a repulsive thought."

    I note that others have pointed out (with respect to the "rage" you believe George Bush would have shown) that you are making a bold claim with no factual basis to support it. In fact, you have been invited several times to explain this statement, and you have not done so.

    Your comments about how Israelis will be "repulsed" by Obama sitting down with the Ayatollahs appears to fall into the same category. PM Benjamin Netanyahu has stated that he supports the decision to engage Iran. (http://infidelsarecool.com/2009/03/31/israel-pm-netanyahu-to-obama-stop-iran%E2%80%94or-i-will/) And, since we now all seem to be citing polls, here's one that shows an even split - 41-41 - among American Jews on Obama's new Iran policy. http://www.usnews.com/blogs/god-and-country/2009/3/23/poll-american-jews-strongly-support-obama-israeli-palestinian-peace-settlement.html?s_cid=rss:god-and-country:poll-american-jews-strongly-support-obama-israeli-palestinian-peace-settlement

    I think the poll (and Netanyahu's position) suggest that while Israelis are not "repulsed", as you suggest, by Obama's offer to engage with Iran, they are nervous. They are prepared to give it a try, but it has to produce results (i.e. ending Iran's nuclear program) with no risk to Israeli security. I think that is a reasonable stance for Israelis to take. I don't think it is reasonable for them to be "repulsed" when the US talks to an enemy. But again, I don't think they are, and you've shown us nothing to suggest otherwise.

    I would join with the other commentators in observing that your posts, while usually enjoyable, seem to lose all sense of balance and proportion when they turn to the subject of Pres Obama.

    Regards,

    Jenna Jameson

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  28. Sheila,
    Thank you for those excellent sources.
    Ron

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  29. Ron, Jessica, Lewis et. al.,

    I think Prof. Klar is doing EXACTLY what he should be doing. Yes, women are treated in deplorable ways in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and elsewhere. But I believe that was the true focus of the post. Holding President Obama's proverbial feet to the proverbial fire is a completely valid way to help effect change. The President of the United States can make a difference.

    With HRC as Secretary of State and human rights lawyer, Harvard professor and activist Samantha Powers in the Administration, there should be more action. Public critiques and suggestions such as provided here by Prof Klar will help spur action.

    Ron Jeremy

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